| Archive for - Whispers From Walmington Forum - A forum dedicated to the classic British comedy Dads Army from the BBC |
| Toad |
Battle School conundrumDuring several scenes in the 'Battle School' episode the platoon's rifles did not have their foresights attached. Is anyone aware of why this was so? |
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| jives11 |
Re: Battle School conundrum
I watched this episode last night, and I see what you mean. It's rather odd isn't it ? This episode contains all the scenes used in the "you have been watching" sequence , used from season 3 onward, and you can see that the shots of the individual actors marching past some pine trees was also shot at the same time. Perhaps the guns had been in storage and the outdoor shots were the first shot that season ? I guess the BBC has a props armoury, maybe the guns were previously used somewhere else and had to pass them selves off as something else from a distance, so the front sights were removed. Maybe a Legionnaires Lebel Rifle in a Beau Gueste-style program ? Stranger things have happened - most of the weapons in Star Wars are actually British Stirling or Lewis guns that have been disguised. Han Solo's pistol is a 1912 Mauser pistol from WW1. The only other reason I can think is if you were concerned that the front sights would snag in something. The chronological previous episode is the armoured might of corporal Jones, and here you could understand it for the "1,2,3,1,2,3 bang,2,3,bang,2,3" where they had to slide the guns through the improvised ports in the side of Jones van. However the sights are on the rifles in that sequence Removing the front sights is quite hard as you have a pin that has to be knocked through with a tap, then the whole tightly fitting front sight knocked off with a block of wood. I've done it on similar rifles and it's not something you'd do in a hurry. BTW The rifles are the correct Pattern 1913 Rifles/Enfield 1917 which were purchased in large numbers in 1940 from the USA for Home Guard use and were .30 caliber, rather than the .303 type used by regular troops |
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| pault |
That's another reason I love DA. The attention shown by the writers to such detail and accuracy is superb. By the way, this is an interesting (and well picked up) observation. Might keep my eye out for other episodes with the missing sights. Paul. |
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| jives11 |
If you are interested there is a good overview of the weapons typically used by LDV/Home Guard units here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Home_Guard Quite a few feature in episodes including : Mainwaring staking his reputation on the platoon getting their first rifles Mainwarings "fast draw" Webley Mk VI Frazer losing the Lewis gun butterfly spring Pike getting the Thompson - one suspects the latter were issued more for morale purposes. And who can forget the Smith Gun episode ("They know their onions"). My Grandfather was in the RAF Regiment, who also formed during WW2 and also had issues with getting modern kit. He said the Dads Army episode was absolutely spot on. Men claimed that a good fielder could run and catch the falling projectile from one of these beasts. Godfrey's sisters camouflage cover for it is one of my favourite moments |
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| Dave Homewood |
Re: Battle School conundrum[quote="jives11"]
That Armoured Might scene was of course filmed much later, in the studio, so after most of the secenes filmed on location for Battle School. I've never noticed the missing sights, very interesting. I wonder if they were genuine rifles. I know Clive Dunn had a very lightweight replica made for the stage show so he had no trouble dancing with it. |
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| jives11 |
actually the missing sights are in ( or rather are not) in every episode, as you they are also missing from the "You have been watching" sequence, which was filmed during "Battle School" but ends every episode from series 3 onward. You can even see this in the stills at the top of Whispers from Walmington | ||
| pault |
Thanks for the link. Great stuff. Cheers, Paul. 
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| jives11 |
a possible solutionwell I did a bit more googling.I posted in the rec.guns newsgroup, thinking that the bayonets might have been the wrong type for the rifles and the front sight protruded too much. My thinking rifles were P14/M1917 but perhaps the props department only had Lee Enfield SMLE Sword bayonets. I also contacted this re-enactment group http://www.therealdadsarmy.co.uk/ who have authentic rifles, and so have some insight. I received friendly and helpful input from both and ... the consensus is that the rifles used in Battle School and some outside shots are light weight fibre glass replicas, primarily to ease the burden for the cast. A rifle of this type is pretty heavy, not least because of all the wooden stock and many of the cast were getting on. This is born out , I believe, by "You have been watching" sequence where a couple of platoon members (noteably Godfrey & Pike) are holding the rifle very high up i.e. both hands more than half way toward the muzzle end. With all the weight at the stock end , this would have been very hard with a real rifle. Of course there is no reason why the replicas couldn't have had front sights too, so this may have been an over-sight (ugh - sorry about that). |
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| jives11 |
another thing to noticeAnother unique feature of Battle School is they march whistling their own theme tune. I don't think this happens in any other episode |
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| Dave Homewood |
Correct, and it is the only tune that is historically incorrect in the show.
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